This section of the book is focused on Ned’s time spent with a men’s workshop. Going into this workshop Ned had many assumptions of men and how they expressed themselves. The world had formed men to fit a mold of the masculine man, holding up the world, never showing weakness or expressing themselves. This, however, was found to be greatly false, which surprised both our group and Ned. After spending time with the group, Ned was quick to realize that men also have feelings too, they have just been suppressed by society’s perception of masculinity. It was interesting when Ned used the example that during the early feminist movement, women felt suppressed because they were only expected to cook and bore children. They wanted the freedom to choose, work, and succeed just like all the men. However, the men didn’t have it easy either. They were looked at as the providers, to work to make money and provide for the family. Women looked at this men’s role as strong and powerful, men looked at their role as making them weak and vulnerable. It was interesting because being a group of mostly females; you never really got to look at the situation through a man’s perspective.
The author tries to convey the idea that all men face inner personal struggles. She uses many examples and imagery techniques to portray this idea. While spending time in the group, Ned is faced with an activity aimed to define each group member’s inner heroes. A piece of paper was given to each man and he was to draw what who he felt his hero was. Ned then went on to describe in great detail what each man’s hero looked like. It was interesting to see that everyone’s hero was slightly different but overall all the men’s struggles were generally the same, overcoming insecurity and vulnerability. What man surprised our group most was the revelation of Toby’s hero. Toby was “built like an English bulldog,” and his face had that “pushed-in, pugnacious quality about it that made you assume that he was stubborn and stupid.” However, after revealing his drawing, he expressed how he felt trapped by the judgments people made about him. People assume he is a violent person when actually he describes himself as soft, emotive, and thoughtful. It was effective to see how stereotypes really affect people. Our group can take that lesson into the future and not judge people based on their appearance.
Chapter 8 relates to the subject of gender roles we have discussed in class. In this chapter Vincent discusses the hardships of being a male. Her tone is very serious and she is just summing up what she has learned from her experience as Ned. You can tell by the way that she writes that this project has had a major affect on her, and I think it will be something that she will never forget.
The most interesting thing that Vincent mentioned in this last chapter was the idea that Ned’s power was mostly psychological. Vincent said that “People didn’t see him with their eyes. They saw him in their mind’s eye.” Once the identity of Ned was developed, Vincent could stop wearing part of her disguise. She could even stop wearing things such as her beard, her glasses, and even at times her binding. But if she remained acting as Ned no one ever questioned her identity. She felt that Ned had a lot of power psychologically which is interesting and makes a lot of sense, but is also something we would have never guessed on our own.
Monday, December 7, 2009
Vocabulary Builder #8: Meghan
1. Clamoring pg 251= a loud uproar, as from a crowd of people
2. Impunity pg 281= exemption from punishment
3. Pugnacious pg 255= inclined to fight readily
4. Neuroses pg 255= a relatively mild personality disorder typified by excessive anxiety or indecision
5. Inexorably pg 258= unyielding, unalterable
6. Devolution pg 264= passing onward from stage to stage
7. Euphemism pg 268= the subsitution of an expression for one thought to be offensive
8. Buttress pg 274= any prop or support
9. Quotient pg 277= the result of division
10. Amicable pg 281= charachterized by a showing of goodwill
2. Impunity pg 281= exemption from punishment
3. Pugnacious pg 255= inclined to fight readily
4. Neuroses pg 255= a relatively mild personality disorder typified by excessive anxiety or indecision
5. Inexorably pg 258= unyielding, unalterable
6. Devolution pg 264= passing onward from stage to stage
7. Euphemism pg 268= the subsitution of an expression for one thought to be offensive
8. Buttress pg 274= any prop or support
9. Quotient pg 277= the result of division
10. Amicable pg 281= charachterized by a showing of goodwill
Summarizer #8: Malory
The last section that we read was quite interesting. Vincent went to the all guy's retreat at a cabin in the woods. She discusses their activities and discussion they have while on this retreat. She also becomes very vulnerable in this section when she asks another member to cut her during the spirit dance. To her disappointment at the spirit dance they are only given plastic tools and nothing is real. After her experiences as Ned she checks herself into a mental institution in order to rid herself of Ned. When she "recovers" she summarizes her year and a half as Ned to say "It was hard being a guy," and she discusses many of the main ideas she brought up in the book.
This last section was not very well written and maybe that was because of the whole "she had a breakdown" thing. The author exposes herself and becomes very vulnerable in the end of the book. In this section she doesn't leave much implied as she discusses everything about her and her reactions in the end to her experience as Ned.
This last section was not very well written and maybe that was because of the whole "she had a breakdown" thing. The author exposes herself and becomes very vulnerable in the end of the book. In this section she doesn't leave much implied as she discusses everything about her and her reactions in the end to her experience as Ned.
Discussion Leader #8 Luke
1) Do you think body image affects men as much as the author states?
Body image affects both sexes on a very large scale. It is more obvious in women, but like the author states it is a prominent issue for many men. Two of the men in the men's group felt that they were judged solely on the their own looks because they were large, muscular men and people acted scared like they were violent people. Norah had her own experience with male body image issue. While disguised as a man she appeared to be on the smaller side and was told while she was dating that she was not "big" enough.
2)Do you feel that Norah should have told the men's group the truth?
Norah should have revealed the truth to the group at the end of her time with them, but it is easy to see why she didn't. In the group those men shared incredibly personal emotions that they would only talk about with a select group of people. Most of the men there felt that their problems stemmed from the women in their lives and it would have been a harmful result if they found out that a women and been there to see and hear it all.
3) What were your thoughts about the spirit dance?
The spirit dance was a very interesting section of the book. For Ned it must have been a very strange experience because it was his first time with the men's group on retreat, but also because also because of he was the only women there in a all male environment. Norah's idea for her spirit dance was also very strange. When she asked one of the fellow men to cut her it was probably the oddest moment in the book.
4) What are your thoughts on Norah's eventually mental breakdown?
It was not that surprising that she had the breakdown because of all the stress that she was constantly under to maintain her disguise. She was constantly fooling people into thinking that she was a man and getting them to open up to her emotionally and occasionally physically which eventually began to destroy her. She made friends and relationships with many of the people she met and couldn't stand lying to them anymore.
Body image affects both sexes on a very large scale. It is more obvious in women, but like the author states it is a prominent issue for many men. Two of the men in the men's group felt that they were judged solely on the their own looks because they were large, muscular men and people acted scared like they were violent people. Norah had her own experience with male body image issue. While disguised as a man she appeared to be on the smaller side and was told while she was dating that she was not "big" enough.
2)Do you feel that Norah should have told the men's group the truth?
Norah should have revealed the truth to the group at the end of her time with them, but it is easy to see why she didn't. In the group those men shared incredibly personal emotions that they would only talk about with a select group of people. Most of the men there felt that their problems stemmed from the women in their lives and it would have been a harmful result if they found out that a women and been there to see and hear it all.
3) What were your thoughts about the spirit dance?
The spirit dance was a very interesting section of the book. For Ned it must have been a very strange experience because it was his first time with the men's group on retreat, but also because also because of he was the only women there in a all male environment. Norah's idea for her spirit dance was also very strange. When she asked one of the fellow men to cut her it was probably the oddest moment in the book.
4) What are your thoughts on Norah's eventually mental breakdown?
It was not that surprising that she had the breakdown because of all the stress that she was constantly under to maintain her disguise. She was constantly fooling people into thinking that she was a man and getting them to open up to her emotionally and occasionally physically which eventually began to destroy her. She made friends and relationships with many of the people she met and couldn't stand lying to them anymore.
Friday, December 4, 2009
Sources
Amazon.com. Amazon, 19 Aug. 2009. Web. 7 Dec. 2009.
http://www.amazon.com/Self-Made-Man-Womans-Journey-Manhood/dp/0670034665
This website is for anyone who is interested in purchasing the book Self Made Man.
“A Self-Made Man.” Good Morning America. ABC News. 20. Jan. 2006. Web. 4 Dec. 2009.
http://abcnews.go.com/2020/Entertainment/story?id=1526982
This is a website from ABC that talks about the book Self-Made Man.
“Book Review: Self-Made Man, by Norah Vincent.” Creative Destruction. 16 May. 2006. Web. 4 Dec. 2009.
http://creativedestruction.wordpress.com/2006/05/16/book-review-self-made-man-by-norah-vincent/
This website includes one reader’s opinionated view of the book Self-Made Man.
Davidson, Carl. “Selling More Door to Door – Tips for Success.” Sales and Management Solutions. n.d. Web. 5 Dec. 2009.
http://www.salesandmanagementsolutions.com/door.pdf
Here is a link that gives tips on how to sell door to door, I thought it was an interesting relation to what Norah had to go through by self discovering these things when she went to work at a "Red Bull" company.
Griffin, John. “Black Like Me.” sparknotes.com. SparkNotes. 7 Oct. 2007. Web. 4 Dec. 2009. http://www.sparknotes.com/lit/blacklikeme/summary.html
This is a summary of the book Black Like Me. We compared these two stories because each author put themselves in a situation where they were around people whose culture and way of life was very different from their own.
“Listen.” Talk of the Nation. NPR. 25. Jan. 2006. Web. 4 Dec. 2009.
http://www.npr.org/templates/player/mediaPlayer.html?action=1&t=1&islist=false&id=5171860&m=5171861
This is a website that includes a interview with Norah Vincent that you can listen to online.
Nawrocki, Jim. “Becoming a Man (it’s harder than it looks).” The Gay & Lesbian Review Worldwide. July-August 2006: n. pg. Web. 4 Dec. 2009. http://www.glreview.com/issues/13.4/13.4-nawrocki.php
This website talks about some similarities and differences between Black Like Me and Self-Made Man.
Norah Vincent. J. Lopez. n.d. Web. 4 Dec. 2009.
http://www.norahvincent.net/
This is the official home page of Norah Vincent’s website.
Merton, Thomas. "What Exactly is a Monk?" The National Institute for the Renewal of the Priesthood. n.d. Web. 23 Nov. 2009.
http://www.jknirp.com/merton2.htm
Answer's the question of what is a monk according to Thomas Merton.
Zupp, Brent. “Wanderings Self-Made Man Norah Vincent - Journey Into Manhood.” n.d. Web. 4 Dec. 2009.
http://www.wanderings.net/notebook/Main/SelfMadeManNorahVincentJourneyIntoManhood
This website talks about Norah’s journey into manhood.
http://www.amazon.com/Self-Made-Man-Womans-Journey-Manhood/dp/0670034665
This website is for anyone who is interested in purchasing the book Self Made Man.
“A Self-Made Man.” Good Morning America. ABC News. 20. Jan. 2006. Web. 4 Dec. 2009.
http://abcnews.go.com/2020/Entertainment/story?id=1526982
This is a website from ABC that talks about the book Self-Made Man.
“Book Review: Self-Made Man, by Norah Vincent.” Creative Destruction. 16 May. 2006. Web. 4 Dec. 2009.
http://creativedestruction.wordpress.com/2006/05/16/book-review-self-made-man-by-norah-vincent/
This website includes one reader’s opinionated view of the book Self-Made Man.
Davidson, Carl. “Selling More Door to Door – Tips for Success.” Sales and Management Solutions. n.d. Web. 5 Dec. 2009.
http://www.salesandmanagementsolutions.com/door.pdf
Here is a link that gives tips on how to sell door to door, I thought it was an interesting relation to what Norah had to go through by self discovering these things when she went to work at a "Red Bull" company.
Griffin, John. “Black Like Me.” sparknotes.com. SparkNotes. 7 Oct. 2007. Web. 4 Dec. 2009. http://www.sparknotes.com/lit/blacklikeme/summary.html
This is a summary of the book Black Like Me. We compared these two stories because each author put themselves in a situation where they were around people whose culture and way of life was very different from their own.
“Listen.” Talk of the Nation. NPR. 25. Jan. 2006. Web. 4 Dec. 2009.
http://www.npr.org/templates/player/mediaPlayer.html?action=1&t=1&islist=false&id=5171860&m=5171861
This is a website that includes a interview with Norah Vincent that you can listen to online.
Nawrocki, Jim. “Becoming a Man (it’s harder than it looks).” The Gay & Lesbian Review Worldwide. July-August 2006: n. pg. Web. 4 Dec. 2009. http://www.glreview.com/issues/13.4/13.4-nawrocki.php
This website talks about some similarities and differences between Black Like Me and Self-Made Man.
Norah Vincent. J. Lopez. n.d. Web. 4 Dec. 2009.
http://www.norahvincent.net/
This is the official home page of Norah Vincent’s website.
Merton, Thomas. "What Exactly is a Monk?" The National Institute for the Renewal of the Priesthood. n.d. Web. 23 Nov. 2009.
http://www.jknirp.com/merton2.htm
Answer's the question of what is a monk according to Thomas Merton.
Zupp, Brent. “Wanderings Self-Made Man Norah Vincent - Journey Into Manhood.” n.d. Web. 4 Dec. 2009.
http://www.wanderings.net/notebook/Main/SelfMadeManNorahVincentJourneyIntoManhood
This website talks about Norah’s journey into manhood.
Vocabulary Builder #7: Jenny
garrote (pg. 218)-verb; to strangle or throttle
niblick (pg. 218)-noun; a club with an iron head, the face of which has the greatest slope of all the irons, for hitting the ball with maximum loft
apotheosis (pg. 221)-noun; the elevation or exaltation of a person to the rank of a god
coddling (pg. 223)-verb; to treat tenderly; nurse or tend indulgently; pamper
operand (pg. 225)-noun; a quantity upon which a mathematical operation is performed
brazenly (pg. 225)-adjective; shameless or impudent
insidious (pg. 226)-adjective; intended to entrap or beguile
grandiose (pg. 228)-adjective; affectedly grand or important; pompous
bereft (pg. 229)-adjective; deprived
mimeograph (pg. 231)-verb; to duplicate (something) by means of a mimeograph
niblick (pg. 218)-noun; a club with an iron head, the face of which has the greatest slope of all the irons, for hitting the ball with maximum loft
apotheosis (pg. 221)-noun; the elevation or exaltation of a person to the rank of a god
coddling (pg. 223)-verb; to treat tenderly; nurse or tend indulgently; pamper
operand (pg. 225)-noun; a quantity upon which a mathematical operation is performed
brazenly (pg. 225)-adjective; shameless or impudent
insidious (pg. 226)-adjective; intended to entrap or beguile
grandiose (pg. 228)-adjective; affectedly grand or important; pompous
bereft (pg. 229)-adjective; deprived
mimeograph (pg. 231)-verb; to duplicate (something) by means of a mimeograph
Summarizer #7: Meghan
This section (Pages 217-252) started out with Ned still working at the Red Bull sales job. That particular day since he had been selling a lot of coupon books, he was sent out to work with Doug for the day. The pair didn't do too well, and that night, after an exhausting day of work, Ned quit. He decided not to reveal himself to management because to them he was just another pair or hands bringing in the money; they didn't see gender.
Ned then decided to join a private men's workshop. The men who joined these groups were facing their problems, talking about them openly and pointedly examining their masculinity, both as they and the culture defined it. In these meetings, the men read from their booklet, and did a lot of hugging. Here Ned meets the group leader Paul. At first he is intimidated by him but as time goes on he recognizes Paul as more of a mother, and a listener. Lastly, Ned goes on a group retreat with these men. They stay at a ten bedroom cabin near a lake for the weekend where they talk about their problems and perform self-actualizing rituals.
This reading section was written in a very speculative tone. Ned went into the men's workshop very skeptical because as Norah she didn't really believe in these groups. She felt that emotions and ideas were forced, rather then brought upon naturally. Ned didn't know who or what to expect out of the men in this group but realized that many of her feelings towards these men changed by the end of the section. Paul for example seemed to really intimidate Ned, but after Ned got to know him and actually sat down to talk to him, he realized that Paul was actually a really good guy, with deep feelings too. An image that sticks out in my mind is Ned's description of Paul. "He was a powerful-looking man, probably in his late fifties. No taller than five feet nine, but heavy, with solid arms, large hands, and a sizable paunch, which he wore like a sumo, as if it would be an asset in a fight, not a liability. He had the bloated, toughened face of an Irish boxer or a corrupt old-world cop, and his whole head, wolly with his russet graying hair, looked like a wad of scar tissue." Page 255 This is the type of image that popped up in my head when Paul was described.
Ned then decided to join a private men's workshop. The men who joined these groups were facing their problems, talking about them openly and pointedly examining their masculinity, both as they and the culture defined it. In these meetings, the men read from their booklet, and did a lot of hugging. Here Ned meets the group leader Paul. At first he is intimidated by him but as time goes on he recognizes Paul as more of a mother, and a listener. Lastly, Ned goes on a group retreat with these men. They stay at a ten bedroom cabin near a lake for the weekend where they talk about their problems and perform self-actualizing rituals.
This reading section was written in a very speculative tone. Ned went into the men's workshop very skeptical because as Norah she didn't really believe in these groups. She felt that emotions and ideas were forced, rather then brought upon naturally. Ned didn't know who or what to expect out of the men in this group but realized that many of her feelings towards these men changed by the end of the section. Paul for example seemed to really intimidate Ned, but after Ned got to know him and actually sat down to talk to him, he realized that Paul was actually a really good guy, with deep feelings too. An image that sticks out in my mind is Ned's description of Paul. "He was a powerful-looking man, probably in his late fifties. No taller than five feet nine, but heavy, with solid arms, large hands, and a sizable paunch, which he wore like a sumo, as if it would be an asset in a fight, not a liability. He had the bloated, toughened face of an Irish boxer or a corrupt old-world cop, and his whole head, wolly with his russet graying hair, looked like a wad of scar tissue." Page 255 This is the type of image that popped up in my head when Paul was described.
Discussion Leader #7: Malory
Why is it that interviewers at the "Red Bull" jobs treated men and women differently, and what was the significance of it?
It is because the interviews are assessing you for what you are, and not who you are. Even when Diane at Borg thought she treated the sexes equal, she didn't noted Vincent. Vincent shows examples of how you can tell by their mannerisms and that they would try to be a friend of buddy of a person with the same sex and flirt with a person of the opposite sex. The significance of this is that it tells you what you are and how you are to behave, which puts you into a gender role no matter what. Vincent called it "gender-coded" behavior.
Why was everything at "Red Bull" exaggerated; what was the purpose of it?
It is all a psychological game to keep these people going out there day to day in the hot sun and working long hours for nothing. They exaggerate the hope of a promotion and tell everyone that you need to bust your butt to get to the top when a lot of there expectations are not even realistic to meet. A lot of the guys who did get ahead or appeared to have gotten so were buying there own products or working for a ridiculous number of hours. The purpose was to play into the hype of males expectations, at least at the male dominated office. The males were just playing into the gender role of being manly men.
What was the point of the men's therapy group?
It is part of the men's movement. It is supposed to be a place where women aren't allowed and where men can face their problems, talk about them openly, and examine their masculinity- the way they and the culture defined it. Men always have the image of not being emotional and holding everything together, but this is a place where they could drop the act and talk about what they are really going through. This is where Norah decides to end her journey as Ned.
When Vincent quotes that the men were going to this group to examine "their masculinity, both as they and the culture defined it," what is she cuing to us?
I think Vincent is trying to lead us to the discussion she has later in the chapter where the way men define their masculinity and the way the culture defines it are two different things. The culture makes men seem as though they have to play a certain role of being strong, protective, never breaking down, yet being sensitive to a woman's needs and such. Men claim that this is to much for them, they feel as though someone is always examining their manhood, and that is why they would attend those meetings so that they could talk about who they really are and what they really feel like.
It is because the interviews are assessing you for what you are, and not who you are. Even when Diane at Borg thought she treated the sexes equal, she didn't noted Vincent. Vincent shows examples of how you can tell by their mannerisms and that they would try to be a friend of buddy of a person with the same sex and flirt with a person of the opposite sex. The significance of this is that it tells you what you are and how you are to behave, which puts you into a gender role no matter what. Vincent called it "gender-coded" behavior.
Why was everything at "Red Bull" exaggerated; what was the purpose of it?
It is all a psychological game to keep these people going out there day to day in the hot sun and working long hours for nothing. They exaggerate the hope of a promotion and tell everyone that you need to bust your butt to get to the top when a lot of there expectations are not even realistic to meet. A lot of the guys who did get ahead or appeared to have gotten so were buying there own products or working for a ridiculous number of hours. The purpose was to play into the hype of males expectations, at least at the male dominated office. The males were just playing into the gender role of being manly men.
What was the point of the men's therapy group?
It is part of the men's movement. It is supposed to be a place where women aren't allowed and where men can face their problems, talk about them openly, and examine their masculinity- the way they and the culture defined it. Men always have the image of not being emotional and holding everything together, but this is a place where they could drop the act and talk about what they are really going through. This is where Norah decides to end her journey as Ned.
When Vincent quotes that the men were going to this group to examine "their masculinity, both as they and the culture defined it," what is she cuing to us?
I think Vincent is trying to lead us to the discussion she has later in the chapter where the way men define their masculinity and the way the culture defines it are two different things. The culture makes men seem as though they have to play a certain role of being strong, protective, never breaking down, yet being sensitive to a woman's needs and such. Men claim that this is to much for them, they feel as though someone is always examining their manhood, and that is why they would attend those meetings so that they could talk about who they really are and what they really feel like.
Graphic Organizer #7: Luke
Monday, November 30, 2009
Journal #3
One neat thing in Chapter 5 was when Norah did a Catholic confession in the monastery. She is not catholic but she confessed to the sins she was committing in the monastery. Our group has three Catholic’s so we have all done a confession before. It was interesting to relate this part of the book to our own lives.
We feel that this section is probably one of the most controversial of the whole book because she is going into a place that ordinary people are not allowed; it is a monastery that is supposed to be full of priests and brothers and such. The monastery is especially not a place for women. We can assume that many religious people would take offense to this section as it is a great sin to lie and deceive. Furthermore, she went into this monastery and barely touched on the religious aspects of the place. Instead, Vincent focused on the males interactions, their feelings, and there relationships; which is understandable being the focus of her book. Overall, it was an interesting section, but we feel she should have maybe touched on the religion aspects of it to respect the Catholic community.
We were shocked to find that there is a lot going on behind the scenes in a monastery. We assumed before reading this section that there was not a lot going on in there in terms of relationships when really there was a lot for Vincent to explore. So maybe it was worth it for her to infiltrate this monastery. She found out what men are like out of the elements of a sports bar or bowling alley and see what they are like without the presence of women. It was surprising that she concluded that the monks were just normal American man. She said the men were “suffering together in silence under a hurt they could barely acknowledge, let alone address.”
Before reading this chapter we had assumed men could be more emotional inside the monastery than they could in the real world. But by reading, we discovered as Vincent put it that the monastery was “a very hard place to be an emotional man, and in that sense it was not so unlike the outside world after all.” There was still judgment and protocol in the abbey, even though one would think that would be abolished in such a holy place.
When Ned enters the work force at the Red Bull companies he goes through many surprising and valuable experiences. After we came to this chapter on work we all assumed that it would be more of an office setting or something along those line, but not door-to-door sales man. In the end though, it did make sense for the author to choose this in order to maintain her disguise.
The very beginning of the chapter is her interview stage during which she learns what a suit can do to a person. It was surprising to see how much of a change she went through mentally after just changing her clothes. Besides putting on a suit and acting differently this section conveys a message to its readers. When attending an interview be sure to act confidently but not necessarily arrogant. Showing that you have confidence in yourself is a good way to let your interviewer know that you believe in your abilities and that they should too.
Before Norah even calls for an interview she has her own assumptions about what to expect in this type of job. She expects to get a job in sales that will be fast paced, and testosterone-saturated where her co-workers would emasculate each other by saying how much better their stuff is than theirs. After reading the section it is apparent that her assumptions are exactly right. The majority of the other sales reps are male and all former jocks who are in constant competition with each other to get the best sales.
We feel that this section is probably one of the most controversial of the whole book because she is going into a place that ordinary people are not allowed; it is a monastery that is supposed to be full of priests and brothers and such. The monastery is especially not a place for women. We can assume that many religious people would take offense to this section as it is a great sin to lie and deceive. Furthermore, she went into this monastery and barely touched on the religious aspects of the place. Instead, Vincent focused on the males interactions, their feelings, and there relationships; which is understandable being the focus of her book. Overall, it was an interesting section, but we feel she should have maybe touched on the religion aspects of it to respect the Catholic community.
We were shocked to find that there is a lot going on behind the scenes in a monastery. We assumed before reading this section that there was not a lot going on in there in terms of relationships when really there was a lot for Vincent to explore. So maybe it was worth it for her to infiltrate this monastery. She found out what men are like out of the elements of a sports bar or bowling alley and see what they are like without the presence of women. It was surprising that she concluded that the monks were just normal American man. She said the men were “suffering together in silence under a hurt they could barely acknowledge, let alone address.”
Before reading this chapter we had assumed men could be more emotional inside the monastery than they could in the real world. But by reading, we discovered as Vincent put it that the monastery was “a very hard place to be an emotional man, and in that sense it was not so unlike the outside world after all.” There was still judgment and protocol in the abbey, even though one would think that would be abolished in such a holy place.
When Ned enters the work force at the Red Bull companies he goes through many surprising and valuable experiences. After we came to this chapter on work we all assumed that it would be more of an office setting or something along those line, but not door-to-door sales man. In the end though, it did make sense for the author to choose this in order to maintain her disguise.
The very beginning of the chapter is her interview stage during which she learns what a suit can do to a person. It was surprising to see how much of a change she went through mentally after just changing her clothes. Besides putting on a suit and acting differently this section conveys a message to its readers. When attending an interview be sure to act confidently but not necessarily arrogant. Showing that you have confidence in yourself is a good way to let your interviewer know that you believe in your abilities and that they should too.
Before Norah even calls for an interview she has her own assumptions about what to expect in this type of job. She expects to get a job in sales that will be fast paced, and testosterone-saturated where her co-workers would emasculate each other by saying how much better their stuff is than theirs. After reading the section it is apparent that her assumptions are exactly right. The majority of the other sales reps are male and all former jocks who are in constant competition with each other to get the best sales.
Vocabulary Builder #6: Luke
Ameliorations, pg. 190- an improvement
Coquettishly, pg. 191- a woman who flirts lightheartedly with men to win their admiration and affection
Ostensibly, pr. 194- outwardly appearing as such
Unctuos, pg. 194- characterized by excessive piousness or moralistic fervor
Purported, pg. 197- reputed or claimed
Tendium, pg. 197- the quality or state of being wearisome
Onomatopoeic, pg. 197- the formation of a word
Vitriol, pg. 199- something highly caustic or severe in effect
Execrably, pg. 202- utterly detestable
Demagogic, pg. 205- obscure or distort with emotionalism, prejudice, etc.
Coquettishly, pg. 191- a woman who flirts lightheartedly with men to win their admiration and affection
Ostensibly, pr. 194- outwardly appearing as such
Unctuos, pg. 194- characterized by excessive piousness or moralistic fervor
Purported, pg. 197- reputed or claimed
Tendium, pg. 197- the quality or state of being wearisome
Onomatopoeic, pg. 197- the formation of a word
Vitriol, pg. 199- something highly caustic or severe in effect
Execrably, pg. 202- utterly detestable
Demagogic, pg. 205- obscure or distort with emotionalism, prejudice, etc.
Summarizer #6: Jenny
Ned worked with a pregnant young lady around the age of 18 and was very surprised at the way she put herself out there by displaying her body in order to sell products. The image of this teenager was stuck in the back of my mind. They described how she pushed up her boobs while opening up her shirt, and also wore a short skirt. They went into a workshop full of men thinking this would get them to buy the product. It made Ned feel degraded that our sex would go so far to be successful. At the same time, she talks about how she would, without thinking about it, flirt with her boss because it was what women were supposed to do. The young lady shows how desperate some women are and how far they would go for their success. She also elaborated on her discovery that work is seen in a sexual manner for some men and that they use their macho-ness and strength in words to work the people into buying their product.
Discussion Leader #6: Meghan
1. Why did Vergil cut off almost all contact with Ned?
Ned seemed to ignore all male boundaries, saying innappropriate things, or doing innappropriate things, especially in the eyes of a monk. In a place where emotional display and physical contact are almost forbidden, Ned was looked at as a threat to these common practices. Ned was even labeled as gay by some of the monks, and so Virgil thought it would be in Ned's best interest to cut off all contact with him.
2. What did Ned realize about Father Claude that saddened her?
Ned told Father Claude one day that he really liked Father because he gave him hope. Father Claude then looked sad, saying that he wished his brothers felt the same way. He then revealed that he doesnt think the rest of the convent likes him. The fact that Father Claude was without fellowship after his entire adult life was spent in the convent really saddened Ned.
3.How did Ned talk differently then Norah when it came to work?
Ned stopped obsessively saying sorry, please, and thank you in resteraunts, gas stations, and shops the way Norah had. Instead, Ned just asked for what he wanted, right out, no apology, no squirm.
4. What was Ivan's relationship to Ned?
On Neds second interview with a new job he was sent out to work for the day with Ivan. Ivan was a balls-to-the-wall salesmen and Ned respected that. Also, Ivan made Ned laugh; they had a pretty good friendly relationship.
Ned seemed to ignore all male boundaries, saying innappropriate things, or doing innappropriate things, especially in the eyes of a monk. In a place where emotional display and physical contact are almost forbidden, Ned was looked at as a threat to these common practices. Ned was even labeled as gay by some of the monks, and so Virgil thought it would be in Ned's best interest to cut off all contact with him.
2. What did Ned realize about Father Claude that saddened her?
Ned told Father Claude one day that he really liked Father because he gave him hope. Father Claude then looked sad, saying that he wished his brothers felt the same way. He then revealed that he doesnt think the rest of the convent likes him. The fact that Father Claude was without fellowship after his entire adult life was spent in the convent really saddened Ned.
3.How did Ned talk differently then Norah when it came to work?
Ned stopped obsessively saying sorry, please, and thank you in resteraunts, gas stations, and shops the way Norah had. Instead, Ned just asked for what he wanted, right out, no apology, no squirm.
4. What was Ivan's relationship to Ned?
On Neds second interview with a new job he was sent out to work for the day with Ivan. Ivan was a balls-to-the-wall salesmen and Ned respected that. Also, Ivan made Ned laugh; they had a pretty good friendly relationship.
Graphic Organizer #6: Malory
This graphic organizer explains the characteristics of the "Red Bull" job that Norah took on as Ned. She experienced all of these hardships in three steps, 1. the Interview, 2. being the Trainee, and 3. becoming the Professional where she even got the ring the bell in the boardroom at the end of the day. She experienced many things while going through these 3 stages of a red bull job and probably the one with the most hardships was in the trainee section where she couldn't figure out how to sell a single set of books, and it wasn't until she realized that she has to act differently and be manipulative to sell books that she became the professional.Here is a link that gives tips on how to sell door to door, I thought it was an interesting relation to what Norah had to go through by self discovering these things:
Davidson, Carl. “Selling More Door to Door – Tips for Success.” Sales and Management Solutions. n.d. Web. 5 Dec. 2009.
http://www.salesandmanagementsolutions.com/door.pdf
Monday, November 23, 2009
Vocabulary Builder #5: Malory
amicable (pg. 148) - implies a state of peace and a desire on the part of the parties not to quarrel
cloistered (pg 149) - living in a cloister, providing shelter form contact with the outside world
octogenarian (pg 150) - a person who age is in the eighties
compos mentis (pg 159) - of sound mind, memory, and understanding
tonsure (pg 164) - a bald spot resembling a tonsure - the shaven crown or patch worn by monks and other clerics
trepidatiously (pg 173) - a tremulous motion, of uncertain agitation
orthodox (pg 176) - a conforming to established doctrine especially in religion
ostensibly (pg 177) - in an ostensible manner, intended for display : open to view
autoerotic (pg 181) - sexual feeling arising without known external stimulation
unmitigated (pg 181) - being so definitely what is stated as to offer little chance of change or relief
Summarizer #5: Luke
In this section, the author is in a monastery trying to see how men without sex live. Norah thinks this will be a valueable environment to live in because it is a strictly an all male environment in which men live, work, and pray together. After living there for some time, the brothers and fathers suspect Ned of being gay because Norah lets some of her effeminate comments out on accident. As she continues to live with the monks they begin to open up to her emotionally, something that these men have been told not to do. When she reveals the fact that Ned is actually Norah the monks who know are surprised but accepting of her and feel more comfortable around her.
The tone of this section is much more serious and emotionally dead compared to the other sections. I would attribute this to the thick-skinned nature that the monks have. She goes into great detail about the way most of the men balk when asked about their emotions in monastic life, but when they do open up it reveals how sad, and in one case depressed, they actually are. The section generally focuses on the way that men are taught to act around each other.
The tone of this section is much more serious and emotionally dead compared to the other sections. I would attribute this to the thick-skinned nature that the monks have. She goes into great detail about the way most of the men balk when asked about their emotions in monastic life, but when they do open up it reveals how sad, and in one case depressed, they actually are. The section generally focuses on the way that men are taught to act around each other.
Discussion Leader #5: Jenny
1.) Why do people tend to open up to Ned?
People at the monastery see Ned as an individual who doesn't follow the norm. They are not aware of Ned's true identity even though she lets slip some of her feminine thoughts and actions. Although some things made the people surrounding Ned very uncomfortable and/or suspicious, she managed to go the entire time without exposing herself. The people surrounding her trusted her because they saw Ned as a unique individual who wasn't afraid to be different and would accept others for their differences. Ned also appeared to be a genuinely caring guy who had no problem expressing his thoughts and feelings.
2.) Why didn't Ned try to break the silence at the meetings where they were supposed to open up to one another?
Ned was afraid of being to obvious about her disguise. At the same time I think Ned should have opened up to see if they men would follow her lead and do the same. This could have brought a whole new perspective on the man versus woman gender roles. I think it would have made the book more interesting as well instead of us hearing the same type of issues and responses over and over again.
3.) Why did Virgil go to Ned and tell him about his acceptance to becoming a monk after he had been ignoring him for so long?
I think Virgil was very proud of himself and thought that Ned would show his approval more than the other guys around him. He wanted to boast and not have to worry about looking like an idiot, and considering Ned is seen as an accepting guy, he didn't think twice about going to him. Ned is a genuinely caring guy who would honestly be proud of Virgil and he would also express his emotions on the matter more than the other men.
4.) We believed men in a monastery would be more open to sharing their feelings and problems with one another. Why is this not true?
There is still the aspect of competitiveness in a monastery and they show their manliness as a sign of being powerful and strong-minded. These are qualities they look for in monks. It makes them think their beliefs and motives are just as strong as their actions. Also, monasteries do not typically accept intimacy of any sort. Their religion doesn't approve of homosexuals which is one of the reasons why they look at Ned in such a strange way.
People at the monastery see Ned as an individual who doesn't follow the norm. They are not aware of Ned's true identity even though she lets slip some of her feminine thoughts and actions. Although some things made the people surrounding Ned very uncomfortable and/or suspicious, she managed to go the entire time without exposing herself. The people surrounding her trusted her because they saw Ned as a unique individual who wasn't afraid to be different and would accept others for their differences. Ned also appeared to be a genuinely caring guy who had no problem expressing his thoughts and feelings.
2.) Why didn't Ned try to break the silence at the meetings where they were supposed to open up to one another?
Ned was afraid of being to obvious about her disguise. At the same time I think Ned should have opened up to see if they men would follow her lead and do the same. This could have brought a whole new perspective on the man versus woman gender roles. I think it would have made the book more interesting as well instead of us hearing the same type of issues and responses over and over again.
3.) Why did Virgil go to Ned and tell him about his acceptance to becoming a monk after he had been ignoring him for so long?
I think Virgil was very proud of himself and thought that Ned would show his approval more than the other guys around him. He wanted to boast and not have to worry about looking like an idiot, and considering Ned is seen as an accepting guy, he didn't think twice about going to him. Ned is a genuinely caring guy who would honestly be proud of Virgil and he would also express his emotions on the matter more than the other men.
4.) We believed men in a monastery would be more open to sharing their feelings and problems with one another. Why is this not true?
There is still the aspect of competitiveness in a monastery and they show their manliness as a sign of being powerful and strong-minded. These are qualities they look for in monks. It makes them think their beliefs and motives are just as strong as their actions. Also, monasteries do not typically accept intimacy of any sort. Their religion doesn't approve of homosexuals which is one of the reasons why they look at Ned in such a strange way.
Graphic Organizer #5: Meghan

This is important because it shows you the positives and negatives to life as a monk. Through Norah's interactions with people in the convent; she learned many new things. Although life was less stressful, and a perfect escape for some, most of the men felt emotonal stress because they weren't really allowed to express their feelings and emotions. In situations like this it is important to see if the good really outweighs the bad. I saw this habitat as very unhealthy, and wouldn't voluntarily put myself in a situation like that.
Merton, Thomas. "What Exactly is a Monk?" The National Institute for the Renewal of the Priesthood. n.d. Web. 23 Nov. 2009.
**Click Here to Find Out What Exactly a Monk Is...
Friday, November 20, 2009
Journal Entry #2
Some information that surprised our group in the second section, pages 73-144, was the extremely blunt and graphic language. Norah starts off this reading section by attending many local strip clubs. The language she uses to describe the images around her is very graphic and only suitable for a mature audience.
Some assumptions Norah has during this selection were that men enjoyed the strip clubs and that dating would be the least challenging part of her experiment. After experiencing these two things first hand, however, Norah is surprised to find out her assumptions were wrong. In strip clubs the men seemed almost as ashamed as the women were. They didn’t find joy in going to strip clubs; instead they felt almost a sense of self pity. When it came to dating, since Norah had an advantage to dating women, she thought this would be one of her easier tasks, but after going to bars and meeting women and being repeatedly rejected, reality hit. Women, being naturally hurt by men, had their guard up before even meeting Norah, which was very frustrating for her.
Something our group found interesting was how she explained women’s outlook on men. She explained that women, since generally they are heterosexual, have only dated men, thus only allowing them to be hurt by men; but what women need to realize is that both men and women are capable of hurting. Women cannot go into a relationship thinking they will be hurt, because by doing this they’re only setting themselves up for failure. Women need to look at men as individuals because everyone is different. What makes this so interesting is as mostly girls (minus Luke) reading this book we can apply this to our life. This seems like very valuable advice, and maybe if taken, dating will come easier to us all. It is a theory we have never really thought about in the past.
We were all surprised by the fact that three of the women Vincent dated and explained herself to still wanted to sleep with her. All three were heterosexual women and it was even after they found out Vincent was a women that they were still willing to sleep with her! This surprised us because we thought that there would be no going to bed together in this chapter because she is pretending to be a man who is dating heterosexual women - who like men! Why would this be? This could be due to the possibility of her emotional involvement and how unlike a guy her emails and conversations were.
Also, we were surprised when Vincent brought up the idea about violence and rape towards women brought on by men. We almost thought she was going to make an excuse for it, but then she did quote, “I make no excuses for this. There are none.” We are glad she cleared things up, but still she claimed she felt “attuned” to the idea because acting as a male she felt women held all the power. She didn’t feel important or powerful instead feeling women had control and could grant or say give worth only to people they wanted. She discusses how this rejection might fuel someone to want more power and that is possibly the fueling in abuse or rape. This all adds up but still is quite alarming she addresses this issue the way that she does. She addresses it in such a tone to give it an explanation; we were alarmed because in our opinion there is no explanation for that kind of violence.
Vincent raps up the end of chapter 4 by discussing our species short comings. The author’s tone at the end of this chapter seems angry and then somewhat sad. She does not discuss without emotion how she feels towards both men and women. She begins to appreciate the manly man, who has all the qualities that testosterone gives them, and she also forgives women for her flaws. She makes a good point in saying that one needs to “balance on our own side of the equation.” We can all apply this to our own lives, we feel, by remembering that no one is perfect; we should be accepting and we should not set such high standards that no human species can reach.
One thing in Chapter 5 we felt she should have addressed at the beginning of the chapter was how she really got into the monastery. Did she tell them about her experiment? She briefly touches on it and it just kind of sounded like they let her in pretty easy, but did she run into any difficultly? It sounds like just anyone could go and do exactly what she did if they just call up the vocation director and are willing to pay to stay. If we could we would have asked her to explain this into more detail.
Some assumptions Norah has during this selection were that men enjoyed the strip clubs and that dating would be the least challenging part of her experiment. After experiencing these two things first hand, however, Norah is surprised to find out her assumptions were wrong. In strip clubs the men seemed almost as ashamed as the women were. They didn’t find joy in going to strip clubs; instead they felt almost a sense of self pity. When it came to dating, since Norah had an advantage to dating women, she thought this would be one of her easier tasks, but after going to bars and meeting women and being repeatedly rejected, reality hit. Women, being naturally hurt by men, had their guard up before even meeting Norah, which was very frustrating for her.
Something our group found interesting was how she explained women’s outlook on men. She explained that women, since generally they are heterosexual, have only dated men, thus only allowing them to be hurt by men; but what women need to realize is that both men and women are capable of hurting. Women cannot go into a relationship thinking they will be hurt, because by doing this they’re only setting themselves up for failure. Women need to look at men as individuals because everyone is different. What makes this so interesting is as mostly girls (minus Luke) reading this book we can apply this to our life. This seems like very valuable advice, and maybe if taken, dating will come easier to us all. It is a theory we have never really thought about in the past.
We were all surprised by the fact that three of the women Vincent dated and explained herself to still wanted to sleep with her. All three were heterosexual women and it was even after they found out Vincent was a women that they were still willing to sleep with her! This surprised us because we thought that there would be no going to bed together in this chapter because she is pretending to be a man who is dating heterosexual women - who like men! Why would this be? This could be due to the possibility of her emotional involvement and how unlike a guy her emails and conversations were.
Also, we were surprised when Vincent brought up the idea about violence and rape towards women brought on by men. We almost thought she was going to make an excuse for it, but then she did quote, “I make no excuses for this. There are none.” We are glad she cleared things up, but still she claimed she felt “attuned” to the idea because acting as a male she felt women held all the power. She didn’t feel important or powerful instead feeling women had control and could grant or say give worth only to people they wanted. She discusses how this rejection might fuel someone to want more power and that is possibly the fueling in abuse or rape. This all adds up but still is quite alarming she addresses this issue the way that she does. She addresses it in such a tone to give it an explanation; we were alarmed because in our opinion there is no explanation for that kind of violence.
Vincent raps up the end of chapter 4 by discussing our species short comings. The author’s tone at the end of this chapter seems angry and then somewhat sad. She does not discuss without emotion how she feels towards both men and women. She begins to appreciate the manly man, who has all the qualities that testosterone gives them, and she also forgives women for her flaws. She makes a good point in saying that one needs to “balance on our own side of the equation.” We can all apply this to our own lives, we feel, by remembering that no one is perfect; we should be accepting and we should not set such high standards that no human species can reach.
One thing in Chapter 5 we felt she should have addressed at the beginning of the chapter was how she really got into the monastery. Did she tell them about her experiment? She briefly touches on it and it just kind of sounded like they let her in pretty easy, but did she run into any difficultly? It sounds like just anyone could go and do exactly what she did if they just call up the vocation director and are willing to pay to stay. If we could we would have asked her to explain this into more detail.
Vocabulary Builder #4: Meghan
1. Apishness pg. 110:
Foolishly affected; silly.
2. Leitmotif pg. 112:
A dominant and recurring theme, as in a novel.
3. Parlance pg. 112:
A way or manner of speaking; vernacular.
4. Circumscribed pg. 114:
To enclose within bounds; limit or confine.
5. Unfettered pg. 114:
To free from constraints; liberate.
6. Proclivities pg. 117:
Natural or habitual inclination or tendency.
7. Polyglot pg. 124:
Able to speak or write several languages.
8. Sustenance pg. 127
Means of sustaining life; nourishment.
9. Chauvinism pg. 129
Biased devotion to any group, attitude, or cause.
10. Goyish pg. 136
Gentile.
Foolishly affected; silly.
2. Leitmotif pg. 112:
A dominant and recurring theme, as in a novel.
3. Parlance pg. 112:
A way or manner of speaking; vernacular.
4. Circumscribed pg. 114:
To enclose within bounds; limit or confine.
5. Unfettered pg. 114:
To free from constraints; liberate.
6. Proclivities pg. 117:
Natural or habitual inclination or tendency.
7. Polyglot pg. 124:
Able to speak or write several languages.
8. Sustenance pg. 127
Means of sustaining life; nourishment.
9. Chauvinism pg. 129
Biased devotion to any group, attitude, or cause.
10. Goyish pg. 136
Gentile.
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